here's my explanation -lonelylonelyman(jackman) @巴尔的摩华人论坛:巴尔的摩枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Baltimore

枫下茶话 / 法律 / 我01年登陆，一年后办理了返家证回国的（二年），返家证到期时正是非典，没有回加拿大拿枫叶卡，我在国内已生活了3.5年，并生了孩子，我还有可能办理旅行签证去加拿大办理枫叶卡吗？如果可以，我可以在国内为我的孩子办理移民吗？ -mutoubb(bb); 2005-7-9 (#2389375@0)

天下没有免费的午餐。 -shrek2005(shrek2005); 2005-7-9 (#2389466@0)
玄 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-9 (#2389467@0)
任何一个5年中没有住满2年, 自动失去永久居民身份.重新申请吧. -littleddv(littleddv); 2005-7-9 (#2389946@0)

请问什么叫自动丧失永久居民身份？ -chat123(knight); 2005-7-10 {213} (#2390839@0)
如果某人1998年登陆，2个月后去了美国工作直到2001年初返回加国到今，也就是说她是在现移民法实施前回加国的。她是否已自动丧失了永久居民身分？是否也丧失了申请公民的资格？或者公民法官不会追究这个问题？敬请指教！非常感谢！

加拿大鸡肋 -happybird123(bird); 2005-7-9 (#2390216@0)
你这个比较复杂，最好还是问一下使馆，记得当时返加证在移民法修改时给了一些好处。我的理解是你应该还可以办理旅行签证。 -happy30s(goodluck); 2005-7-9 (#2390403@0)

right, back to Canada before 2006, you should be ok. But you have to apply for a travel permit in Canada embassy for admission. -qqqqqqqq(qq); 2005-7-10 (#2390950@0)

just stay in china, canada is not for you -happybird123(bird); 2005-7-10 (#2390974@0)

happybird说的对，加拿大是有些鸡肋的感觉，但如果人的心静了，没想法了，加拿大就变好了。 -mutoubb(bb); 2005-7-10 (#2391120@0)

that is right, if you do not want anything better, everything will be good, like monk -happybird123(bird); 2005-7-10 (#2391794@0)

谢谢大家的答复，那就是说我今年就要申请travel permit 了，我再去移民局的网上去看看，看来还有希望啊。 -mutoubb(bb); 2005-7-10 (#2391122@0)
拜托，再问一下qqqqqq,为什么要在2006年以前，如果不算返家证那两年，应该是2006年年底回去就可以吧。 -mutoubb(bb); 2005-7-10 (#2391132@0)

我先生的情况有些类似，01年8月份登陆，11月离开，后来得到返加证，04年1月到期。 -bamboo(我和春天有个约会); 2005-7-10 {196} (#2391564@0)
03年回到加拿大两次来办枫叶卡和取卡，每次大约逗留1周左右，后来一直没有来。不知道返加证的时间是不是可以算作居住在加拿大的时间？而且像他这样最后入境的期限是什么时候？他有SIN卡，驾照而且今年还报了税。

永久居民身份不会自动失去, 要法官决定. 你这种情况, 只要肯花钱花时间, 八成还能保住移民身份,但是肯定会要你来加拿大住的. 先把自己身份搞定再管孩子吧. -javacup(风铃); 2005-7-10 (#2391157@0)

别误导别人白花钱和精力了 -onlyi(onlyi); 2005-7-10 (#2391187@0)

为何是"误导"? 那里的法律说过自动失去移民身份? anyway, 建议楼主要是不舍得花银子找律师又不甘心丢身份的话, 至少自己先花点时间雇狗查清楚. -javacup(风铃); 2005-7-10 (#2391425@0)

你说得对, 只是不知道比如说枫叶卡过期了, 真的可以坚持入境吗? -gnits(sting); 2005-7-10 (#2391798@0)

这个"坚持入境"比较有创意. -workopolis(workaholic); 2005-7-10 (#2392058@0)

不是我的创意, 51上好象见过一篇文章, 就是因此海关不让入境一定不要惊慌, 要坚持找律师............我觉得有道理, 因为新法中有一个重要的部分就是不满这个规定时间并不等于不让入境或者是丧失PR身份, -gnits(sting); 2005-7-11 {46} (#2392446@0)
海关怎么定你就没了身份了呢? 要入境后裁决才有效

海关不让入境? 海关 dosen't care 入境. That is immigration officer's 裁决. When you are landing, you have to pass the Immigration Office. Your message is not right. -holly999(酒肴肴-就是下酒小菜); 2005-7-11 (#2392933@0)

我用词不准确, 其实我说的海关实际上是指入境时的移民官, 他也没有权马上决定, 你要坚持的话, 必须通过律师最后法庭裁定你不可以才不可以留在加拿大 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-11 (#2393852@0)

你又错了。移民官有权马上决定, 但你有权不服。如果不服，必需在３天内提出上诉。如果规定时间内没有上诉，就等于判决生效。登陆３天内必须找到律师并递交上诉书到移民法庭，你想想，容易吗？ -holly999(酒肴肴-就是下酒小菜); 2005-7-12 (#2395024@0)

It's within 30 days after a removal order (departure order) is issued against you, and you can appeal by yourself, not necessary have to be done by a lawyer. -lonelylonelyman(jackman); 2005-7-12 (#2395133@0)

你的更可信一点, 3天不是流氓嘛 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-12 (#2395439@0)

哦, 你是比我表述得准确, 不过具体细节俺只是看规定和一些参考信息推定, 没有实例做参考: 不过关键是不能一下子把你挡在门外, 这一点是关键. 不容易是当然的, 都是麻烦事儿 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-12 (#2395437@0)

onlyi说的是对的, 你看看下面所帖北京大使馆的说明就知道他已经失去了永久居民的身份了. 不信的话去北京大使馆申请旅行签证的时候大使馆会告诉你的. -littleddv(littleddv); 2005-7-10 (#2391807@0)

5. 如果我已经知道不符合居住条件，是否还可以申请？可以申请。 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-10 (#2391816@0)

不过如果他没有什么特别的借口, 我想最多也就是再来旅游一下了 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-10 (#2391818@0)

As a permanent resident of canada, you have the rights to -lonelylonelyman(jackman); 2005-7-12 {915} (#2394978@0)
enter and stay in Canada,even if the immigration officer determines that you do not comply with residency obligation requirement (2 of out 5 year rule) and issues you a departure order, they still can not refuse your entry because their decision is not final. You still have the right to appeal such decision to the court and a court will have final determination of whether you have lost the status or not, if the court finds you loss the status, the court will issue an enforceable departure order against you and you must then leave Canada. however if you decide not to appeal, your PR status will lost once the departure order become enforceable, that is 30 days after such order is issued. As long as the departure order (removal order) is not enforceable, you are still a PR, and have the right to enter and remains in Canada. Your status as PR will loss only when a removal order is enforced against you.

lz现在去大使馆办个"travel document",如果能办下来，至少还可以买张机票，跟机场的移民关见面，说不定还有希望；如果办不下来，就可以彻底死心了。 -realpangxie(匿名); 2005-7-10 (#2391461@0)

北京大使馆的规定： -realpangxie(匿名); 2005-7-10 (#2391462@0)

谢谢大家的答复，是不是说有可能我就是得到了travel permit ，回到加拿大我也不是永久居民了吗？那我怎么恢复呢？ -mutoubb(bb); 2005-7-11 (#2392439@0)

这得找律师了, 律师能拿出足够的理由说明你不呆在加拿大有一些比较人道的原因, 能说服移民法庭, 还是有希望的, 我不知道如果说比如说家里至亲健康问题需要照顾什么的这种借口是不是就可以 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-11 (#2392449@0)
顺便聊一下中国和加拿大，说起来，可能中国的生活质量更高些，但有时真是累，而且人只要在中国心就很浮躁，而在加的生活很简单，可以什么都不想，当然你的要求不能高 -mutoubb(bb); 2005-7-11 (#2392451@0)

给你一段我朋友的话: 四年多移民监中一直想着的就是回国继续自己原来的事业, 但是四年到头, 拿到身份, 自由了, 反而不想回国了. -gnits(sting); 2005-7-11 {287} (#2392454@0)
她讲回到中国又是经常想到加拿大的好处. 不想说哪边好, 各人感觉不同, 追求不同, 只是想说人的生活有一种习惯, 改变习惯的时期最难受从前是从中国改到加拿大不习惯, 过了若干年, 发现自己反而习惯了加拿大, 回国了又是个不习惯.

我也准备回国了, 但是我想免不了同样的问题, 只能经常记住自己为了什么回国.

你说的太好了, 深有同感! 人总会不自觉地将现在同过去比较, 其实世上没有十全十美的地方, 关键是我们应该清楚在现阶段我们要的是什么.想创业或有较高成就, 当然回中国. -littleddv(littleddv); 2005-7-11 (#2392844@0)
建议记下来为什么回国，等回国后的某天翻出来看，会很有意思，人生就是这样折腾的 -david_du(DD兔); 2005-7-13 (#2396664@0)

呵呵, 我有时候把多年前的日记翻出来(来了加拿大倒不怎么记了), 发现很多很有意思的事情, 最让人感叹的是, 10年前的愿望, 一个一个都陆续实现了, 有些当时只当是梦想, 没想过真能实现的 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-13 (#2396677@0)

我是真的有很充分的理由 -mutoubb(bb); 2005-7-11 {64} (#2392482@0)
我遇到了很多挫折，我的亲人离开了我，我无法面对这一切，我需要离开

那找个律师, 应该没有问题, 入籍问题上我至少有三个朋友通过律师都保持了PR身份或者入了籍, 都有跟你差不多的问题, 当然他们离开加拿大的时间不象你这么长 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-11 {34} (#2392492@0)
可是拿到身份后倒真的都离开加拿大了
if you run away from the trouble , you will run in your whole life. Learn how to face it. only my 2 cents -happybird123(bird); 2005-7-12 (#2394307@0)

这份资料也许对楼主提出一些人道理由有启发：page 22,14. Factors to be considered when assessing humanitarian and compassionate concerns -realpangxie(匿名); 2005-7-11 (#2393509@0)

如果不像回来长期居住，就别折腾了，来了回去还得考虑这个3年的问题。花钱劳神，如果是这位鸡肋，就放弃。 -hahaha_ly(免费的); 2005-7-11 (#2392481@0)

人生无常，人的想法也说不来回怎么变？ -mutoubb(bb); 2005-7-11 (#2392525@0)
agree, many people want to go back china. canada is not a good place -happybird123(bird); 2005-7-12 (#2394290@0)

I think you have no problem getting the one time travel doucment (permit), here's my analysis: -lonelylonelyman(jackman); 2005-7-11 {1986} (#2393895@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Facts: landed 2001, (5 years period starts 2001, end 2006)
left Canada 2002 --- (stayed in Canada for 1 year)
obtained return resident permit (RRP) for 2 years in 2002 and stayed outside since 2002----(stayed outside with RPP for 2 years)
currently staying outside with expired RPP---(startng 2004)

Analysis:

1. to satisfy residency obligations one needs to stay in Canada for 2 years in the most recent 5 years period preceding the application (of travel document, of PR card, of apply for entry at border..).

2. your most recent 5 year period starts from 2001 and end 2006, i assume both years to be start and ends in January.

3. you stayed 1 year in 2001, that is 1 years of your 2 out of 5 years requirements.

4. you stayed outside with return resident permit valid for 2 years, that according the Immigration regulation section 328 states that for a 5 years period before coming into force of the current regulation, period spent outside canada with under a valid return resident permit should be counted as time spent in Canada for the purpose of satisfying residency obligations requirement of A28. so you have 2 years out of 5 years.

5. based on above, for the purpose of determining residency obligations, you are 1 year more than the required 2 year out of 5 years rule.

6. so, base on my analysis, i think you should have no problem obtaining the travel document from the embassy within this year.

7. when you obtained the travel document from the embassy, you will have no problem at the border, and in applying for PR card once you are in Canada because the fact that when you apply for the travel document, you are at the same time automatically signalling immigration to determine your PR status, and if travel document is given, your status is secured.

8. Of cause, these are only my analysis, and only for references, you may want to consult an expert for further help.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

罗罗索索. 关键是他最近的3年半不在加拿大, 他如何满足5年住慢2年的要求? -hahahaly(hahahaly); 2005-7-11 (#2393913@0)

here's my explanation -lonelylonelyman(jackman); 2005-7-11 {1212} (#2393986@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛my apology, i forget to mention another section under current immgration law which is section 328(3) that states that for any time spent outside canada with a valid RRP within the two year period immidiately after coming into force of the immigration regulations is counted as time spent in Canada for the purpose of determining residency obligations, so the regulation came into force on June 2002.

1st year 2001 ----- 1 year in Canada
2nd year 2002 ------ Not in Canada but have valid RRP = deemed 1 year in Canada i.e. 0.5 year under section 328(2), and 0.5 year under 328(3)
3rd year 2003 ------ Not in Canada but have valid RRP = deemed 1 year in Canada under section 328(3)
4th year 2004 ------ Not in Canada
5th year 2005 July ---not in Canada, and i assume the 5th year ends January 2006.

so 3 years out of 5 years.

out of the 3.5 years he/she spent outside, 2 years were holding a valid RRP, that's to say he/she already satisfied the rule. Theoretically he may even spend another 1.5 years away from canada with no probelm (but I won't recommend and won't risk doing that).

Pls note that's only my personal comments and its better to consult experts.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
谢谢各位，我个人认为我是可以的，就是不知道去哪里官方可以问到"返加证的时间是否不算在内?",给CIC发传真会回吗?去大使馆该怎么问? -mutoubb(bb); 2005-7-12 (#2394261@0)

先去大使馆申请旅行证，这个是第一步 -draeger(cutter); 2005-7-12 (#2394262@0)
page 16,R328(2) and (3): -realpangxie(匿名); 2005-7-12 (#2395212@0)

如果真是特别想回加拿大, 不要光听网上的人说怎么怎么不行, 细节上不是每个人都说得准, 但是移民法上明确写着是有争取的余地的, 要是我就试一试, 我马上拿到国籍了, 加拿大国籍当然比中国国籍要有价值, 无论是从安全角度还是自由角度 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-12 (#2395444@0)

我的一点点自己的和别人的经验: 这种说不太清楚的状况, 经常网上的朋友从自己的思维角度或者经验判定你没有戏了, 但是许多不信邪的人通过争取都过了关, 就是别人的经验也不是个标准, 同样的CASE, -gnits(sting); 2005-7-12 {58} (#2395448@0)
遇上的移民官还不一样呢, 新法给了移民官更多的个人裁决的权力

It happened at Vancouver Airport, the customer officer CUT the PR cards of a couple in front of their eyes. The woman cried like hell. -redundant(duoyu); 2005-7-13 (#2395966@0)

How did customer officer know the date? -37213618(3721); 2005-7-13 (#2396509@0)

国家机器可不是摆着看的 -workopolis(workaholic); 2005-7-13 (#2396632@0)
加拿大是移民国家, 移民算的就是天数, 指着政府不知道不大容易的, 不是有位小姐移民官问她上次出境是什么时候她说不记得, 人家马上从计算机上就调出来了, 就是最近的贴子 -gnits(sting); 2005-7-13 (#2396648@0)
#2249119 -workopolis(workaholic); 2005-7-13 (#2396674@0)

@Baltimore

here's my explanation

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